Frank the Financially Savvy Atheist - The F.S.A.

Sorry for the ostensible lack of posts. I've been busy at work and preparing for our new baby. I've taken on some new responsibilities and it's also bonus season (only slightly kidding on that last part).

I will make every effort to get the Tales of Deconversion II up tonight. Once again, thanks to all the contributors and thank you for your patience.

While I'm busy, why don't you go read some other carnivals:

Godless 49

Personal Finance #66

Plenty of good stuff to tide you over. Also, this is an open thread, so go ahead and post whatever you want to post in the comments.

Tags: personal finance atheism

First, a heartfelt thanks to all who contributed. I was overwhelmed with the responses, but I am glad at the number of people who decided to participate. I've decided to split this up into two parts, the first part is for people who left a comment with their story either because they didn't have a blog or because it was a really short story. The second part will be for actual blog entries and I'll try to get that out on Sunday...because I like irony, what can I say.

The contributions I received ran the gamut from funny one-liners, to serious contemplations, to an award-winning tale of deconversion (I know, I was surprised as well).

Some similar themes became apparent after I began reading each individual entry, which is what I expected and why I wanted to collect these different entries.

It seems that for most, it was a slow and gradual process rather than a "Eureka" type moment where all of a sudden you said to yourself: The existence of god is highly suspect. Also, several searched for other religions trying to find the right one, before settling on the fact that none of them are the right ones. Yet others delved deeply into Christianity, constantly asking questions and seeking god before realizing that his existence is highly suspect, to say the least. Another theme that emerged, some were hesitant to attach to themselves the label of atheist but they finally had to be true to themselves and admit it.

It was absolutely fascinating to read different people's narratives and find so many similarities. So once again, thank you to everyone and without further ado, here is part one:

Theist-to-Non-Theist

I grew up in a household that participated in religious revivals. I clearly remember going to them, especially since I accidentally broke a class door with my hands (running too fast). However after getting taste of young rebellion (understanding it's ok to question dogma!) I did take a skeptical look at the history of the religion and it's teaching, and came to the conclusion that all it's positive values can be reached with a secular mind. I was able to resist the habitual "god-talk", probably because I wasn't very habitual. I think this kept me from the fear that getting an atheistic outlook on life would mean losing something. Which I think is why so many other people, young and old, are afraid to question their dogma. [Markus]

Short and sweet, I read Issac Asimov's "Guide to the Bible" whwn I was about 28 years old. I found out for the first time that in Hebrew,the same word means young girl and virgin, but it doesn't mean that a young girl is necessarily a virgin. Also he book explains that Moses in the original text parts the Sea of Reeds, not the Red Sea. I began to wonder why churches still teach these "miracles" to heir congregations knowing full well that their own book doesn't back up the story. That book made me start examine what is known for sure about the bible stories and well, it's pretty much nothing. If you want an entertaining conversation ask a priest why they teach people that Moses parted the Red Sea and watch him squirm.

I was raised very Catholic, but started reading science fiction when I was 12. After a few months, I looked around the church one Sunday and realized that religious beliefs were even more improbable than the tales of space aliens and alternate universes I'd been devouring. [Rosie Redfield]

Well, my parent were early diciples of BF Skinner and naturally I was raised in a Skinner box. Of course I thought this all normal, but for me my deconversion was later in a high school biology class, and because of my reinforced skills in all areas of science, my teacher, Mr. Burrhus Frederic gave me many extra credit projects that allowed me to spend all my free after school time in the lab, this pleased me to no end, that is until that day, it was late one Friday evening when all the other students were attending the football game, I was in the lab cleaning up after some of Mr. Frederic's research experiments, so I was alone, and in my zeal I began testing the flash points of various chemicals that I had gathered from the store room. It was all so exciting, but what I didn't understand was fire point, so even though I devised a makeshift Pensky-Martens Closed Cup flash tester, it was the ethoxyethane that prompted my deconversion. Since that night I abandon my Skinner box and moved in with a roving band of hippies, who like me, would never step into a Lab again. [Bro Bartleby]

I was also raised Catholic and I was always the problem child. Questioning everything they told me, asking how the hell Jesus could be male without a male parent, how could he raise from the dead, why didn't God just forgive us of our sins, etc, etc. Eventually, science became more important to me than faith and I just stopped worrying about beliefs, since I couldn't make myself believe the absurdities [Jack Goff]

Raised Catholic,rather devoutly, I may add; Was most influenced by arts and literature; music: todd rundgren's "Healing", and "Fascist Christ", various XTC, including "Dear God"; The Tom Robbins book "Another Roadside Attraction". Then I became a surgical resident (I am now a general surgeon) at a catholic hospital. I saw incredible amounts of death and suffering. I'd have to say the experience of surgical residency was the last nail in the coffin, so to speak. [Feste]

Simple answer: 12 years of Catholic schooling made me an agnostic. [Anon1]

I think I became agnostic in high school. It was all the talk that if you chose any other religion you would burn in fiery torment for all eternity. I couldn't make that make any sense in my mind other than as a wonderful guilt and fear trip to make you do what they wanted (which is exactly how my stepmother motivated her familiy members and it always made me bitter towards her too). I bounced around other religions after rejecting christianity, and then decided that none of them could offer any proof that they were true, and the benefits you get out of them can be gotten just as easily secularly. Since then it has only been a steady slide towards athiesm. I still acknowledge the possibility of some kind of higher power... but it doesn't seem likely (more likely I think maybe humans have some sort of need or cognative ability to create a diety to deal with the unknowable). [Robert]

When I finally read the Bible for myself, instead of just hearing the few "good bits" from the local shaman, I became an atheist. [Spocko]

Not much to say. I was raised Catholic. At about 15 I realized the entire belief system was ridiculous. It took me far longer to rid myself of the guilt/indoctrination. Deciding I didn't believe in Santa was much easier.

Christianity is a terrible thing to inflict on a child. [Gerard]

My first doubt in a god came rather early(age 8?) due to reading Reader's Digest and not understanding how so many bad things could happen in the world (if god really loved all the little children in the world, why were so many sick, hurt in wars, or starving?) Age 11 found me having long walks and talks with my dad about the universe and the existence of a god or gods (dad still believes). All the while attending a southern baptist church with my family and then on my own. All the while having the usual doubts (how can my church be the only right one? how can god condemn so many people to hell because they never met a baptist missionary? is the rest of my family going to hell because they don't go to church as much as I do?) Even as I gave my heart to jesus and was baptized. Trying so hard to believe and feel jesus in my heart. When I began to understand (age 13-14) that churches are full of faults, and that people are often assholes regardless of what they believe, I began to accept what I had always felt. Once I accepted it, and began to explore my sexuality free of the guilt my churched-up fellow teens felt (age 15), I felt so free and clear. Everything I have learned since has only confirmed my decision. [wyomeg]

Nothing spectatular here either. I just went through the usual adolescent questioning phase and didn't like the answers I had been told. My family was Catholic but my father was a scientist, so scepticism was as natural as belief. The Catholic censure on masturbation helped I think. I guess that is why there are so many ex-Catholics. [reason]

I was raised in a very strict religious household. My father was a pastor and he didn’t tolerate any questioning of the church or the bible. I can pinpoint the time of my conversion to atheism when I read “The Allegory of the Cave” from, Plato’s Republic. Basically, you are living a reality that “enlightened” people want you to live and you must question things to become free from a false reality. If you have not read it here is some more information about the story. [Anon2 link is to Plato's allegory]

Always A/A [I know this doesn't count, but I wanted to point them out]

I guess I'm a member of the minority within the minority. I was raised [atheist]. [Casey]

Raised agnostic.

Stayed that way.

Met and married fabulous atheist.

Got brave enough to say "I am an atheist" out loud after realizing I was one but was hung up on thinking it was just a little too rude to say so.

Marrying boy from Jersey turns out to be a good cure for being overly polite. :) [Nance]

I was raised atheist/nontheist, didn't rebel during my high school years, fell head over heals for a Fundie (I know, I know...) my first semester of college, spent a crappy year as a confused Christian (much to my mother's dismay), then actually read the bible and saw for myself -- even as a believer -- what a crock it was, and that was the end of that. It was a great learning experience, in that I got to see the inside of the Fundie mindset, but like all learning experiences, it was pretty excruciating at the time. [Jan Andrea]

No conversion story here. All 4 parents (divorced/remarried) raised me to believe in whatever I wanted to. One summer, my stepmom sent us to a summer bible school. We were kicked out. Something about not paying attention in class, or fighting or something. Don't really remember. But now, I have to say I'm a happy atheist. [Jefferson]

No conversion here, I was exposed to mild indoctrination but it
never took. I think innate good logic protected me.
One time, around the age of eight,
I actually tried to pray while in
bed late at night. I embarrassed
myself and felt totaly foolish,
never tried it again. [Senshin]

lifetime nonbeliever [chicago dyke]

I was raised by a devout Catholic mom, and a pretty much 'whatever' father. I can't remember a time in which I wasn't an atheist; I distinctly remember at one point in childhood at about age four or five believing in Santa Claus (since there was ample evidence of his existence) and not believing in God (since there was zero evidence of his existence).

There may be a relationship to a horrific dream I remember having at about age 3 (the only thing I remember from that age, other than the Beatles on Ed Sullivan), when I dreamed Jesus was crucified on our clothesline pole in the backyard, gouting blood and muttering threats at me. I was terrorized and disgusted at the same time. Catholic iconography having an undesired effect? Probably. [Anon3]

and finally...

The vast majority of us [atheists] started off in a theistic household"

Are there stats on this? Most of the atheists I know grew up in atheistic (or apatheistic) households.

(Sorry, no conversion story here; I'm a natural-born atheist.)

What, how dare you ask me to back up an assertion with evidence! I guess to clarify I should say that from a probabilistic stand-point it is much more likely that we'd be exposed to god-belief quite early due to it's ubiquity here in the US. From that standpoint, I could then ask about people's deconversion narrative. Not quite what I said, I know, but you get the idea :P.

Whew, and that was only part one! Tune in next time for even more tales of deconversion from some of your favorite atheist bloggers. Hopefully I didn't miss anyone this time around, apologies if I did.

Tags: atheism atheist becoming atheist deconversion from religion

I emailed all the atheist blogs on blogroll and PZ was kind enough to link to me. Thanks for everyone that is sending me links and also just putting their narratives in the comments. This was way more than I expected.

Keep 'em coming!

Tags: atheism

NH is soooo white.

How white is it?

NH is so white, that all the people working at mcdonalds are white instead of black or hispanic.

[ba dum, dum, crash]

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week folks.

And if that doesn't float your boat, here are some carnivals for your liking:

PF #65

Godless # 48

Tags: personal finance atheism

I have this irrational fear when it comes to our accounts. We do almost all of our transactions online and I make it a point to check our accounts everyday. I've even gotten to the point of making a macro in excel that opens up all 16 sites that I need to check so that I don't forget anything*.

Why? Well, because I'm paranoid. I admit it. I'm also a little obsessive compulsize when it comes to this stuff. Better safe than sorry, right? But should I do it to the point of paranoia?

I was getting better about it too, until my mother recently got her purse stolen. After that I was hyper-vigilant for a time and I've since gone back to only checking my accounts once a day.

How about you? Are you as paranoid as I am?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

* For those who are interested, here is the code I use to open up IE, it's really simple:
Sub OpenIE(webAdd As String)
Dim newSite As Object

Set newSite = CreateObject("InternetExplorer.Application")
newSite.Navigate (webAdd)
newSite.Visible = True

Set newSite = Nothing
End Sub

From there it just a matter of building an array of websites and passing in each web address one at a time after I click a button.

Tags: personal finance

Update
Tales of Deconversion - Part I

Most atheist blogs have some sort of deconversion narrative. The vast majority of us started off in a theistic household and through some sequence of events became an atheist/agnostic.

I'd like to compile all those narratives into one post. It will be a kind of one-time Carnival of Deconversion...or maybe Tales of Deconversion...something like that.

If interested, please leave a link to your deconversion narrative in the comments or send me an email with the link at my gmail account: frankyj009. Spread the word. I'll most likely be emailing lots of other bloggers to solicit posts.

Tags: atheism

Just a quick update for this month.

Our net worth comes in as an unimpressive -3,300 for this month. It's so frustrating having a negative net worth. Especially being part of the personal finance blogosphere with so many people who have positive net worths. I just need to remember to be patient, keep in mind that we are a single income family, and wait for that big bonus check at the end of the year.

In the mean time we will continue selling books on half.com, try to stick to our budget, and try to think of other creative ways to save/make money.

Tags: personal finance

[Begin Rant]

For those of us in the Northeast, we are all familiar with Bob's Discount Furniture. You hear him on the radio and tv all the time. Telling us what a great deal we'll be getting on such and such furniture. Yada, yada, yada.

Well, the store sucks. How you might ask? Let me count the ways:

1. Pushy sales people. Bob apparently subscribes to the used car store business model. Only pay the people who are actually selling! That way you can save on labor costs but have a large labor force. Brilliant! As a result, you will find yourself accosted immediately upon entering the store. One time when my wife and I went there, we told the sales associate that we were just looking around and then proceeded to walk to the elevator. Said associate follows us into the elevator and proceeds to hound us like a starving animal. Can you say aaawkwaaaaard. Not only that, but he wasn't that helpful when we actually had questions. Crappy and pushy service. How can you beat that.

2. Bobisms. Bob has this thing. He likes to use his own name as part of everything in his store. You have the bobinizer, the lazy bob, the bobby bear mattress...you get the idea. It's like they think we're 5 year olds.

3. Bob's "Goof Proof" plan. Most other places would just call this a furniture protection plan. Not Bob. This is no ordinary plan, it's his "Goof Proof" plan. Remember those pushy sales people? Well, they push this thing like it's their one ticket to the infinite wonders of heaven. It must add a fair amount to their commission. And if the original sales person doesn't sell it to you, don't worry, when the manager comes over to "double-check" the order, he'll make sure to detail exactly why you should buy the god damn "goof proof". I guess Bob got more than one thing from used car sales business model.

So as you could imagine, we bought a fair amount of furniture from Bob and since the "Goof Proof" was only an extra $200, we figured why the hell not. Let's protect our "investment" in such fine quality furniture. Fast forward 2 years when we try to actually use the furniture protection plan for two things:
1. A rip in the seam of our sofa.
2. A food stain.

If you've made it this far, you can probably already tell where I'm going with this.

For 1, apparently they don't cover rips in the seam of couches. Try as I might, I can't seem to find that exclusion anywhere in the document we've received. Maybe I need to be a lawyer to understand the complex legalise, especially after I saw that they covered rips and tears. Guess not.

And for 2, since the food stain is surrounded by other stains. And these other stains were the result of normal use, well, they can't clean the stain. Because then they'd have to clean the other stains and those stains aren't covered.

That leaves us with a ripped, stained sofa and a useless waste of $200. Not having much other recourse, I took to the blogosphere to warn others. We learned the hard way that this store sucks, you don't have to. Don't ever say I don't do anything for you people.

[End Rant]

Tags: bob's discount furniture bob's goof proof goof proof